Bug202412301532 permissions confusion for files shared via module 'files'

2024-12-30 16:36:35

adminsforum@hubzilla.org

od wrote the following post Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:37:07 +0100

Bug202412301532 permissions confusion for files shared via module 'files'

It is personal opinion that functionality added without documentation nor quality assurance test, is a bug. Please ignore this post if disagreed.

The bugs as defined by this person alone will only be published within hubzilla. Again, please ignore this post and the author if disagreed.

Bugs are published as information only. Noone is forced or expected to read, reproduce, replicate. Again, please ignore these posts and the author if disagreed.

Documentation is necessary for hubzillian participants to understand permissions for files distributed via the module 'files'.

For example, see:
https://zotum.net/display/4c6b5b1e-1f0e-4ffa-ad15-28d452399124

show all 17 comments

2024-12-30 18:00:06

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

@od

Is it possible that you have not yet understood the basic principles of Hubzilla as far as the permission system is concerned?

In the thread you refer to, for example, you can see that there is a misunderstanding about the nature of ‘forums’. At Hubzilla, a forum is not a ‘room’ that users enter, but a channel that behaves for contacts in the same way as a classic forum. However, it is a channel of a user. If you authorise a forum to see a certain file, only the owner of the forum channel can see the file. If you want everyone who can authenticate themselves (i.e. not everyone on the Internet) to be able to see the file, you must specify this accordingly. Then everyone can see the file via Magic Auth, while it remains invisible to guests. Or you can set the permission to "public"... then there are no problems at all.

Further information: Understanding Hubzilla's permission system

2024-12-30 19:00:39

Harald Eilertsen

harald@hub.volse.no

@Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

If you authorise a forum to see a certain file, only the owner of the forum channel can see the file.

I understand why it works this way, but I also understand this can be confusing for forum members. Imo it would be a useful enhancement to the forum channels if we found a way to make this work more in line with how "normal" forums work.

Perhaps there's a way we could give forum members a way to upload files to the forum channel, but only allow them to delete their own files?

Or perhaps we could have the forum slurp up attachments that it's given access to, and give the forum members view/read access to these copies of the attachments.

The latter option would probably be the most ergonomic and in line with how we share attachments normally.

2024-12-31 11:15:56

od@zotum.net

@Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

If you want everyone who can authenticate themselves (i.e. not everyone on the Internet) to be able to see the file, you must specify this accordingly

Where is the documentation to describe this correct method for files to be visible to forum viewers?

2024-12-31 11:45:22

Mario Vavti

mario@hub.somaton.com

@Harald Eilertsen

Imo it would be a useful enhancement to the forum channels if we found a way to make this work more in line with how "normal" forums work

Channels which have OCAP access enabled in the privacy settings shoud not have this problem because access is granted to the initial post. This should also work for reshares...

2024-12-31 13:48:58

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

@od A tutorial would have to be written for this. This question is too specialised for the manual. There is also a tutorial section in the help.

If I ever find the time, I would do that.

2024-12-31 14:26:23

od@zotum.net

The question now created, participants that create a forum are expected to know acronym 'ocap'?

Does the hubzilla forum have this access permission?

2024-12-31 14:59:50

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

The ocap function must be switched on by the channel owner, i.e. the operator of the forum channel, under Settings -> Privacysettings (‘Enable OCAP access’).

2024-12-31 15:01:37

od@zotum.net

What is the definition ocap?

2024-12-31 17:25:39

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-capability_model

2024-12-31 19:41:54

od@zotum.net

@Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝
@Mario Vavti

> Channels which have OCAP access enabled in the privacy settings shoud not have this problem

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-capability_model

Unbelievable; hubzilla programmers expect the average hubzillian participant to understand _that_ content, before they decide if they want to start a forum...

2024-12-31 23:11:04

Mario Vavti

mario@hub.somaton.com

@Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

The ocap function must be switched on by the channel owner, i.e. the operator of the forum channel, under Settings -> Privacysettings (‘Enable OCAP access’).

No... It is the other way around...

2024-12-31 23:32:26

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

@Mario Vavti Oh, the user of the forum channel has to activate it? And only the user, or also the forum channel?

2024-12-31 23:34:50

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

@Mario Vavti BTW: BUEK! (Boldog új évet kívánok!)
So here in Hungary we wish you a happy new year.

2025-01-01 09:09:56

Mario Vavti

mario@hub.somaton.com

@Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝ the channel that posts to the forum may wish to enable it. It is not required by the forum...

2025-01-01 09:10:21

Mario Vavti

mario@hub.somaton.com

@Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝ Happy new year to you too!

2025-01-05 11:06:47

od@zotum.net

@Mario Vavti

Settings -> Privacysettings

If the hubzillian user channel changes 'enable opac access' to 'yes', are _all_ private media access changed immediately after 'submit' to save the change?

Is a hubzillian able to change ocap access for individual media objects?

2025-01-05 12:28:31

Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝

pepecyb@hub.hubzilla.hu

@od
As far as I can tell, the setting applies globally for the channel.